Bush Impeachment?

[Zaku]

I'm definitely from America. Not afraid to say it, but also not all that proud of it. Happy, though.

[Beren One-Hand]

Zaku: thanks.  Why are you not proud of being from America?  FYI, I am Canadian, but my father is American.

[Zaku]

Well, just like the reason I don't believe in God, I just don't see any reason why I should. I just happen to be from here. I enjoy the benefits of health, education, etc. which that brings, but theres no reason to be "proud" of it...
Anyways, how exactly does being proud of a country work? I've never really experienced it. Are you just super-satisfied of its government's actions? Are you in support of its people?

Besides all of that, recently America has been acting in a way which would lead me to be almost ashamed of it. Again, I don't think I'll be moving anywhere soon because of the quality of living, but I'm not happy with the government's actions.

BTW, be happy to be Canadian; a lot of Americans, while travelling, will pretend to be Canadian to be safe/not get ridiculed.

[numenorian]

And your point is? Big corporations are owned by the public. That's what the stock market is about. In America, everyone has the opportunity to make for themselves whatever they want. Don't blame anyone but yourself for what you don't have.

They own to the public re you serious?Do you actually believe this? in order to have so much money you have to pass through dead bodies.If you just learn the backround of these rich guys you will count thousands of illegal actions.If everyone has the opportunity for their lives why re there so many ppl unemployed at the states?I agree you might change your fortune though if you become a criminal and that is for all the countries and not just America,so don't tell me that the big companies re owned to the country because if you believe this (sorry 4 saying it) you re either blind or someone forced you you to say these things.

[LOTRfan1414]

So obvousely Bill Gates and Microsoft have had to kill hundreds of people and control the lives of millions to get where they are now.  Really, Dennis is right about most coporations, the stock market makes most of them publically owned, and we don't have to worry about them taking control of the U. S. anytime soon. But there are some coporations, such as Haliburtan, I do not trust.

And Zaku, I know what you mean. The thing that worries me the most is how Bush is just dismantling the Constitution piece by peace. It scares me how he can so easily get rid of parts of one of the most important document in our Nation's history.

[numenorian]

I'm not meaning that he had killed ppl m8 but if you see his backround story he may not have done the most legal actions to make money.So much money re not made working.Of course exceptions do exist.

[Zaku]

While I doubt major corporations have gone on any killing sprees recently, it's also foolish to think that they don't have any control over this country.

[Beren One-Hand]

Zaku: many people simply take for granted living in the western world.  I think pride in one's country probably would be found more in those in the military - those who have fought and died in wars.  In Canada, people are proud of many things, but we pride ourselves in being the best in hockey.  Americans excell in all other professional sports (except soccer and cricket) beyond all other nations.  Football = Americans.  Basketball = Americans.  Baseball = Americans.  And you guy's are not too shabby at hockey either, especially in the northern states - Minnesota, Mass., New York, New Jersey, etc.

[numenorian]

Zaku he's right.You shouldn't feel so bad about ur country,because even me that i say things about America i don't accuse the country and its ppl but their goverments and thats tottaly other matter.I have to add though in soccer(the king of sports) you really suck:P and Beren basketball=Greece:P

[Zaku]

Yeah, we rule in all of those sports because we made them all up However, in soccer, the international sport, yep we get pwned. Again, another (smaller) reason why I'm not proud of us.

And I don't take for granted being in the west, like I said I recognize the benefits I get from living here.

And while I suppose I'm proud of WWII veterans, all the other wars have been sorta questionable Though, I respect their ability to make sacrifices for something they believe.

[Beren One-Hand]

Yeah both Canada and America suck in soccer.  I am guessing you made up baseball, but as to the other sports . . .
Basketball was invented by a Canadian - Dr. James Naismith.  And football - the CFL is much older than the NFL.  I know US college football went back quite far though.   Not sure who officially invented it.  One of our sports heros is Steve Nash - Phoenix Suns - two time MVP and Canadian.  He is from the same province as me.  The differance is that America took these sports and made them their own. 

I agree, some wars have been fought on shallow pretenses or for no good reason.  We uphold our veterans - especially from the first two WWr's.  Our troops, I think are doing a great job in Afganistan.  Our government was hesitant to get involved in Iraq.  I am not sure if I support that war myself.  I mean it is good that Sadam is out of power, but look at how unstable things are, and how many American lives have been sacrificed.  I was pleased when I heard that American troops had killed Sadam's sons - like father, like sons - they were evil.

[Zaku]

I agree, some wars have been fought on shallow pretenses or for no good reason.  We uphold our veterans - especially from the first two WWr's.  Our troops, I think are doing a great job in Afganistan.  Our government was hesitant to get involved in Iraq.  I am not sure if I support that war myself.  I mean it is good that Sadam is out of power, but look at how unstable things are, and how many American lives have been sacrificed.  I was pleased when I heard that American troops had killed Sadam's sons - like father, like sons - they were evil.

A. Well yeah, noone argues that taking Saddam down was a good thing. But that wasn't even the government's stated intention. At that time, it was about terrorism and WMDs. Then, when that link failed, they fell back onto the "we must liberate Iraq" crap to keep people happy about the war.
B. Noone should ever be pleased that someone has been killed. If anything, be pleased that their evil actions won't continue.

[numenorian]

I tottaly agree with u Zaku !00 percent accurate.

[Beren One-Hand]

I am happy that justice and retribution was paid upon Sadam's sons.  It is not like I am sitting here smiling and laughing about it.  It is a happiness or satisfaction based upon justice.  So you're not happy when someone evil is convicted of life in prison?  What if that person killed someone close to you?  Wouldn't you be angry? 

[Zaku]

Sure I would be angry, it's only natural. But I wouldn't want them punished. I don't believe in the idea of "justice" that says revenge is fine, as long as it makes you feel better.
I would, however, want them locked up so they couldn't kill anyone else.

Starting to see my moral values, here?