2008 presidential race

[Beren One-Hand]

Lairënuriel: I know you'd vote for the orcs - kidding 

I don't know about the whole global warming thing.  There are some pretty good scientific arguments to the contrary.  Don't you find it interesting, even in the slightest, that this global warming thing only sprung up over the last couple years?  It seems like a fad and very political.  If global warming is the case (and I agree climate change is happening, but that global warming and climate and not the same thing), why weren't people aware of its effects fifty years ago?  It should have been noted much earlier.  With our industrialized/technologically based society - the wheels have been in motion for some time now.  Maybe the Kyoto recommendations are not reasonable.  At least our Canadian and American governments are aware of climate change and are doing something.  "Green friendly" activists will always be harping on something and will never be pleased with what the government does.  Today they have more influence because politicians are taking on their cause.

I agree that we should try and do what we can to preserve this earth we live on - this is also a biblical command to humanity to be caretakers of the earth (I always recycle), but that we should not get too fanatical about things and that of course, we still need to enjoy life. 

[Lairënuriel]

Scientists have been harping on global warming for a long time but the politicians have just started paying attention to them.  All earth cookie stuff aside I have a degree in Biochemistry with a minor in Biology.  I took a load of ecology courses and they were talking about it then (1988 - 19992).  Al Gore and Hollywood has just made it trendy to talk about.  The trendiness of being green has had advantages and disadvantages.  The advantage is that it has had a very larg audience.  The disadvantage is that all of the sceptics become even more surly, thinking it is not a real issue.

And yes I do agree with you Beren, taking care of the earth is just the way you should live.  Put back all that it gives.  Have you heard of zipcar?  Our car lease was up on our second car and I told my husband that I wanted to try to do with just one.  So there is a condo parkinglot two blocks from here where I can grab a car any time I need one (for 10.50/hour).

[Beren One-Hand]

Zipcar?  No, actually I have not heard of this program.  Sounds interesting. 

I need at least one car, and could not live without one.  I used to take transit all the time, and it is just a hassle, and often took me more time to get where I needed to go.  I mean if transit, or walking is easier than driving then don't take the car.  Sometimes people can be proned to lazyness.  Maybe in TO it would be easier to live with the transit system there, as you have a subway system.  But here, and although we have an LRT which is not bad, our city is so widespread that being without a car can be a major headache.  I am one of those people that travels a lot from one end of the city to another, for various reasons, so having a car is essential.  My wife can live without one as she does not have a Canadian license, and doesn't mind the long transit commutes.

[Lairënuriel]

You pay 55$/year and you have a card that opens the car that you have reserved (by phone or online).  The ignition key is inside the car and there is a gas card that you are to use if you take it below 1/4 tank.  So all you pay is an hourly rate.  Having a zipcar for one hour is WAY cheaper than taking a cab.
I've arranged everything so we are at most a 15 minute walk from everything, so I only use zipcars in emergencies. Our transit system is OK, but I live in the west end where it is not that convenient to take transit and be back in time to pick up kids from programs, school, etc..

Tomorrow should be crazy - we got more snow today than we've had in years!

[Lexicalized]

Been awhile since we had any activity here, so now that the Iowa Caucus is over, I thought I'd post and see your reactions/thoughts.

I, for one, am delighted to see Huckabee and Obama in the front.  Awesome.  Freakin' awesome.  I'm just glad Hillary got canned and Huckabee's shining.  Although, seriously, anyone know anything about what Huckabee would do in Iraq or anything else like that?  All I know is he has my values...(hehe...).

As for Obama...I know little to nothing about him.  He seems like a decent guy (unless he's pulling the wool over all of us...) but then again isn't that how politicians LIVE?  *scratches head*  I caught a little bit of what he was saying in a debate tonight, and I was glad to say he was mentioning how the American people need to get more involved in the government, etc...Because I definately think we're headed far from where we started as a country...Time for some Federalism to rise up again.

[Andúnië]

At this moment, I'd have to say that Obama looks pretty decent compared to most of the other candidates. He seems to be more open to change (liberal seems to carry a murky connotation these days). There's a lot of criticism out there about his lack of experience, but I'm of the opinion that this country needs to be run by people with a different perspective on things. For this reason, I'm not too thrilled by the prospect of Huckabee, who seems to be too conservative. Apparently a great number of people voted for him solely for his religious stance. I don't know a lot about many of the others, but there's still time. Iowa is only one state and a lot could change within the next few months.

[Beren One-Hand]

As an outsider who has been watching some of the political debates thus far, it seems to me that the democratic candidates are more united and better prepared to take on the role of the presidency.  After the Bush presidency it looks as though the democratics are poised to win the election anyhow.  It just boils down to who will win.  I have to admit, Obama is a fairly impressive individual and would probably make a good leader.

At least the democratics are on the ball when it comes to the need to change the American health care system.  This is one area within the Canadian system that makes our health care system superior to America's.  The Republican's haven't really done their homework with this one.  Up here, people fear an American privatized health care system.

[Lexicalized]

Haha...no offense, but the democracts win and the countries already frayed morals will be shot.  I don't mean that 100%, so don't get fired up at me.  I know there are some DECENT democrats out there...but as far as I know, you get any one of those democrats in there and we'll have completely legalized abortion.  Not cool.  Not to mention gay marriages...but that's for another thread correct?

I do think we need some changes here in America...I'm just not sure what changes or how we would do that.  We're stuck between a "rock and a hard place," and all I can foresee is this whole country sliding drastically down hill.  I sound so depressing, but that's really what I'm thinkin right now.  *shakes head* 

The thing that makes me nervous about Obama is the media's love affair with him...Our media is clearly slanted towards the liberals, so I have to suspect anyone that they parade around so jovially.   

Meh...health care is all everyone talks about anymore.  I'm self-admittedly ignorant on this issue, no lie.  Inform me if you get bored.

[Pulsifer]

I disagree on your stated political positions (Legalized abortion and gay marriages are, for me, completely obvious things to allow and I approve of both personally) and your conclusion seems kind of bombed to me. Clinton was a democrat - nothing bad happened to your morals, did it?

As for the media's "clear liberal slant" - well, I can't readily accept that as fact. Do you have a cite for that, or a tally of American stations on either side of the fence? I can dig some lists up from the Straight Dope archives, a scientific- and statistic-minded board that minds this sort of thing, but that might take a while.


My own personal take on Obama is that he would be a very good step ahead for American leadership. I certainly can't see any better democrat candidates, though I'll admit I might be biased unfairly against Hillary Clinton. And, well, electing a republican candidate right now wouldn't reflect very well on the US through the world. (I understand that that might or might not be of concern to you, but speaking as an European, the US population ratifying Bush's choices by electing a republican to follow him would send us a very grim and depressing message indeed. We kind of like to think of the GWB era as a ruefull fluke)

However satisfying it would be to see a republican president take the backlash Bush has built up . . .

[Andúnië]

The U.S. is currently a lot less liberal than many other developed countries. And where are they? A lot more progressive, advanced, and generally better off than we are. The country is not about to go downhill just because a Democrat might take office. There is nothing particularly bad about changes towards the liberal side as long as they're not radical. Those things that many are afraid of being legalized- abortion, gay marriage, etc.- don't necessarily cause a decay in morals. The American society seems to have a disproportionately large number of misgivings about changes from tradition. Many of the systems and policies currently in place are restrictive to personal freedoms or simply not beneficial to the general public (ie, American healthcare).

I don't know about the media having a clear liberal slant- different sources have different biases. There's no reason to automatically dislike whoever is in the limelight, because it changes every day. Whenever someone's status changes, or another event occurs, the media flocks around the one in question.

[Pulsifer]

Kucinich is out, it looks like.

Cite.

Analysts claim that he has been unable to support his campaigns for both his 7th period in Congress, as well as a bid for the White House.

So, we're down to the following candidates;

(D) Hillary Clinton
(D) Barack Obama
(D) Mike Gravel
(D) John Edwards

(R) Rudy Guilani
(R) Mike Huckabee
(R) John McCain
(R) Ron Paul
(R) Mitt Romney

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Personal interpretation;

I firmly believe that Huckabee will withdraw from the race by the end of February, particularly in light of his recent adventure in South Carolina. (The Confederate Flag incident)

I also firmly believe that Mike Gravel and Mitt Romney will withdraw before the end of March, to level the field to three-to-three. This is not backed up by anything besides my low impression of Gravel's popularity and Romney being viewed as overly - or, by some, insufficiently - religious.

The two final Democratic candidates appear to be clear - Clinton and Obama. I doubt Edwards get it.
The Republican candidates' nomination is more unclear. Ron Paul has a very zealous and viral following, while Guillani blanches dissenters by screaming 9-11 into their faces and McCain enjoys a certain amount of respect from all camps. My gut-feeling tells me that the populace will reject McCain under scrutiny, though, as he is the republican candidate who has positioned himself closest to Bush's policies.

[Lexicalized]

Looking for statistics on Liberal media bias, Pulsifer?  Give me some time, because I have them.  I did an informational speech in my communications class about media bias in general.  Found a pretty good study that was done, rating the major media outlets (it's hard to describe, give me some time to refind the link...).  Fox was, OF COURSE, biased right, and but most of the others were biased severely to the left. 

Alright, I've got my old powerpoint open, whether or not you trust me here is up to you, but the study was done by UCLA, and they rated CBS evening news as the highest liberal bias (73.7, with 50. representing centrist...).  Fox had a 39.7.  This is what the article said...

"Americans for Democratic Action (ADA) tracks the percentage of times that each lawmaker votes on the liberal side of an issue. Based on these votes, the ADA assigns a numerical score to each lawmaker, where "100" is the most liberal and "0" is the most conservative. After adjustments to compensate for disproportionate representation that the Senate gives to low-population states and the lack of representation for the District of Columbia, the average ADA score in Congress (50.1) was assumed to represent the political position of the average U.S. voter.
Groseclose and Milyo then directed 21 research assistants — most of them college students — to scour U.S. media coverage of the past 10 years. They tallied the number of times each media outlet referred to think tanks and policy groups, such as the left-leaning NAACP or the right-leaning Heritage Foundation.
Next, they did the same exercise with speeches of U.S. lawmakers. If a media outlet displayed a citation pattern similar to that of a lawmaker, then Groseclose and Milyo's method assigned both a similar ADA score."

Ahhh...and there the link is.  Check it out: http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6664 

Anyways...that was completely off topic. 

I'm watching eagerly as the cauci go down one by one.  I have to say I'm somewhat relieved that McCain is stepping out.  Somewhat liberal/moderate for me, but I think he's a good leader--strong enough to get us out of a lot of problems.  It'd be pretty awesome if he teamed up with Huckabee, but I can't see it happening.

As for the left side of the issue, I'm not sure what I think about Obama seeming to trump Clinton.  I really, really don't like her...Then again, i can see what they say about Obama being an empty suit...I really have no clue what the guy stands for, all I hear is "change, change, change..." 

Andúnië, America's losing her morals with or without legalized abortion and gay marriages.  They didn't start it--in fact, I'm not sure what did.  I guess maybe I'm a pessimist, but we're headed for no where good and I think it'd take a miracle to get us out of the messes we're in...

[~LORDY~]

So, now that Hillary is out of the running how does that change things for you all, or does it not make any difference to you? Do you think that Obama should have Hillary as a running mate?

[Andúnië]

Eh, no, and no. Personally I'm quite relieved that Clinton's no longer in the race, because I just don't really agree with her. As for Obama running with her... I don't see that going anywhere either. It's nothing against party unity, but their views on some issues diverge a fair amount.  Both of them, especially Clinton, seem too adamant to compromise. I can see Obama working with her, but not the other way around. So probably not.

[Leora]

Sorry to run in here and all - I didn't read anything and generally am absolutely uninterested in the American elections but I just wanted to make an ignorant comment. About how I can't believe this thread's been here forever, about how the world's been fussing about the elections for at least half a year and how, I just found out, they're only in November!? With so much buzz, they really should have been 4 months ago... Or maximum next week.
Your democracy sounds too stressful to me.

(As a general note,  my 'democracy' in Russia.
Schedule:
1 month before election - overhear someone's doubtful conversation about how the election might be soon.
2 weeks before/up to election day - "Putin's plan, Russia's future"
1,5 weeks - Watch Jirinivski try to beat up a journalist via youtube. Laugh, discuss with friends.
3 days - rip off a few posters, scream at people promoting Edinaya Rossiya.
Day of election - receive a few fliers, accompany mother to the election place. Get in, realize there's no one to vote for, say that loud and clear when proposed to take a vote blank, refuse to give passport to anyone, sneer, buy cheap cookies at the buffet, leave.

Yeah. Democracy rocks.)