Abortion

[LOTRfan1414]

Ok, very touchy subject, don't participate if your not mature enough.

What is your stance on abortion? Is it a women's right, or just plain evil?

[Beren One-Hand]

I believe that life begins at the moment of conception.  Going through any sort of abortion is taking away life.  The whole pro-choice movement - a woman's right to choose, is a joke.  What about the right of the fetus?  Or even the zygote? - the result of fertilization (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygote).  If a woman doesn't want her baby she can opt for adoption.  I met someone once whose mother almost aborted him.  What a shame it would have been if he had not had a chance to live out his life and his dreams.  Sometimes when women opt for abortion it is because they feel guilty that they had sex at a young age or out of wed-lock and figure they can just erase the "problem" or forget it never happened.  Talk to some women who had abortions, and regret is not far from their minds.  Is it evil?  Yes, because simply put, it is murder - murder which society allows - or lets call it government sanctioned murder.

There are cases where a woman is raped and then opts for abortion as well.  I still think that in this situation this woman should give birth to the baby and then give it up for adoption.  I wouldn't blame the woman for not wanting to keep and raise this child, but to snuff it out?  That seems unfair and cruel.

[LOTRfan1414]

I totally 100 hundred percent agree, abortion is an evil practice and is selfish and by my standerds murder. I can't stand that the United States government still lets abortions happen, even with all the scientific evidence that it is wrong morally and physically.

I do not understand how anyone can stand for this sick praice and I hope that mroe states do away with it.

[Beren One-Hand]

Fan:  good to hear that we are on the same page.  With abortion there is no sense of morality.  At best there might be a blurred sense of morality, which is still no morality.

[Andúnië]

What about the woman? Face it, some organisms live, and some die. It's a fact of life. However, the woman should be able to make her own choice. In the case that she was raped and did not have a choice, then by all means she has the right to not have that baby. Don't stop reading and dismiss my standpoint straightaway. In some cases, it is even more imperative to carry out an abortion. If it is a health or medical issue, and the health or even the life of the mother is at stake because of the presence of the fetus, then the woman's life holds a higher priority. You look upon abortion as evil, because a living thing that cannot "defend itself" is killed. People kill each other for less reason, and we don't have horribly long debates over that. There is no definite line drawn in the process between where the zygote is a few cells large and where it becomes a living, thinking, feeling child. Yes, at some point, it would seem unethical to kill the fetus because it has become too human. But when it is still composed of a few mere cells, we cannot say much about its humanity, even if it is human. Now, of course, I am not rooting for infantcide, but abortion performed early on in development should not be a matter of debate.

[LOTRfan1414]

Um, there are other alternatives then abortion for medical problems. You can transplant the zygote to another mother. Yes a lot of times the zygote does not live, but at least your trying to save the baby and the mother, not just to kill the baby.

[Andúnië]

That is also an option, but in many emergencies there is no time for something like that. I understand the effort, though. But look: people have wars where they kill each other for no particular reason, and that isn't called murder.

[LOTRfan1414]

Well war is wrong without a good reason. I totally agree with you, war without reason is murder.

[eyeofthestorm]

Well war is wrong without a good reason. I totally agree with you, war without reason is murder.

Did you seriously just say that? "War without reason is murder," after earlier stating that an abortion performed with reason is murder?

You can't claim to be against the murder of innocent people and pro war. You've just contradicted your own argument for why women shouldn't be given the choice to undergo abortion.

[LOTRfan1414]

Well killing an innocent fetus' life, and killing a person who is threatning your life, your love ones lives, and your country are two very different things. Surely you must believe in self-defense.

[Andúnië]

Some of the people fighting in a war aren't there by choice. One can protect lives by fighting, and by performing abortion one is also sometimes saving a life. We kill innocent things all the time. We squash insects, kill livestock, and cut trees.

[eyeofthestorm]

Well killing an innocent fetus' life, and killing a person who is threatning your life, your love ones lives, and your country are two very different things. Surely you must believe in self-defense.

Ah yes, because the *55 000+ civilians that died in Iraq over the past 3 years as a result of the war were certainly threatening your life [/end sarcasm]. That is in no way self defense.

But what about ectopic pregnancy? As Andunie stated earlier, sometimes abortion is necessary to save a life. For example if a women has an untreated ectopic pregnancy, which is a complication involving the egg becoming fertilized in the wrong part of the women's anatomy, she will die. If abortion were illegal you'd be dooming an innocent living full grown human to die a very painful and unnecessary death.


*sourced from http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
for a list of their sources and methods of data collection, read http://www.iraqbodycount.org/background.php

[LOTRfan1414]

Did i say once that I was pro-iraq? when did i say that? I believe that war is wrong, so don't put words in my mouth.

Yes, and my rebuttle was that the mother can transport the zygote to another women willing to get pregnant. Yes, a lot of the time the zygote does not survive in this alternative, but it is better than outright killing it!

[numenorian]

I believe tnat on this matter ppl should decide but on the other hand i believe that these women must know why they do that,meaning that they shouldn't do it for revenge and for other stupid reasons.

[Andúnië]

What does abortion have to do with revenge? It is a practical issue, a medical issue, and also a moral issue, if you must. Eyeofthestorm has a point. Would you rather condem a mature human who can suffer or an undeveloped, yet unfeeling zygote to feel pain or death? There is reasoning behind this, people. We are not compaigning for killing infants at birth or late in development. This is about the health and safety of the mother.